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2007 House Bill 17 (Increase Kentucky minimum wage by 36%)

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  • Introduced by Rep. J.R. Gray on January 2, 2007, to increase the state minimum hourly wage to $7.00 an hour. The bill also would adjust the minimum wage annually thereafter, requiring that the minimum hourly wage be adjusted according to the Consumer Price Index. The bill would abolish the tip credit allowed for employers and provide that tipped employees be paid the state minimum hourly wage. This bill was originally pre-filed to raise the state minimum wage 17% to $6.50 by July 1, 2008, but was changed to reflect the higher rate.
    • Referred to the House Labor and Industry Committee on January 3, 2007.

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Comments

Introduced by Rep. J.R. Gray on January 2, 2007. New Comment

1) Consequences [by Anonymous Citizen on February 24, 2008]
Let's face it, stuff happens and most people will never make enough money to be free of financial worries. It seems like a quick fix just to raise minimum wage and start paying people more money, but at what cost to the general public?

If you raise the minimum wage you are costing every establishment more money. They, in turn, are going to do what they can to cut costs. They have to watch the bottom line or there will be no business. So, they start laying people off, they cut hours, they stop offering benefits and they lower the quality of their products. Not to mention a price increase to help cover costs. These are only a few of the possibilities and none of them seem desirable.

Now we have a few people making all the money and the majority looking for work, drawing unemployment. The cost of living would soon rise and now what do we do? We are paying out more money, working less and the poverty level has risen.
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2) USA worker [by Anonymous Citizen on January 4, 2008]
Our country is so screwed up.
The minimum. wage needs to be higher than 7 an hour because every thing else is so expensive.
even with a degree it is so hard to land a good job these days. (I know) and what good is it going to do any one if they just increase it a little at a time?
People need it now.
No wonder you have people standing in the welfare lines here in KY. They can live better on welfare than they can trying to help themselves.

I work hard & yes it is just a little bit above mim. wage...and if I could get a better job...I would...but no one is hiring these days.
and my boss makes sure that she does not give me more than 40 or more hours because she does not want to pay the money to have me as full time...so that she does not have to give me any benefits,
so my hours are kept right at 38 hours or less depending on what she wants for that week.
the only reason I keep this job is because it is only 10 minutes from my home & with gas prices the way they are I can't afford to go any further. even if it did go to 7 an hour.

I think that the government needs to listen to the real people out here who are trying to make ends meet. & trying to keep their heads above water &
trying their level best not to accept welfare just to be able to pay their bills & to EAT.
To raise their kids without taking hand outs from churches or out-reach centers.
I think that the people who are out there saying that people who work mim. wage do not work a hard job or should not make more for the jobs that they do.....
should have to take a walk for just 1 month in a mim. wage worker's shoes to see if they can make it. some people just do not have the choice but to take mim. wage jobs. and they should not have to be punished just because of it.
someone has to do every job of some kind to make this country work. No matter how small or how big the the job might be.
someone has to do the dirty jobs for the rich & privileged people in this our USA.

I'm not saying that someone with a degree should make the same as someone without a degree...I am just pointing out that it is so unfair that when the cost of living is like it is...we as a country need to look out for everyone...no matter what their employment may be.
and by raising the mim. wage it should be done all at once not just a spit at a time. in order for it to do some good.
and I know that it will be harder on the employer's but ....if they don't want to do the jobs themselves then they should have to expect to pay.
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3) middle class life [by Anonymous Citizen on January 9, 2008]
Oh my where should I start? I have a bachelor's degree and am a social worker. My take home salary after taxes is $1200. My husband is a construction worker who brings home $1800. Looks good on paper because we are not eligible for any type of assitance for us or our 2 small children. We pay $207 per week in daycare, rent $750, car payment $300, insurance, gas, groceries, utilities, and 2 in diapers. You do the math. I work for health insurance. We do not have any money to put back for an emergency like my husband's $1000 deductible for his sinus surgery. But we make to much. We get a 2% raise yearly which is gone by the rising costs of health insurance and costs of living but we make too much to get any help. We will end up losing what we have worked to earn all because we are middle class and can't get ahead. One medical illness resulting in either of us being off work would be the end. The child care assistance suggested another child or 2 would make us eligible for everything. If I were to quit work we would be eligible for foodstamps, K-chip, the whole nine yards but I feel I am being punished to work. There is no incentive to work hard unless you are the one making the big bucks.
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4) HB 17 [by Anonymous Citizen on December 31, 2007]
Rep. J. R. Gray, the sponsor of this Bill is no longer in the General Assembly. He has been named Commission of Labor by Gov. Beshear.
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5) Did you read the Bill? [by Anonymous Citizen on January 2, 2008]
This Bill died in 2007. So what?
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6) Min wage or Wage Cap [by Anonymous Citizen on July 24, 2007]
Well did any one think about how all the fat cats who own corp. The Cost of living expenses are going up due to all the bonuses and high salaries of the execs. Yes they have degrees and worked for it but some ceo's and high raninking execs make more in a year than we do in a lifetime. I propose we put a salary cap on the big wigs and that will slow the increase of cost of living a bit. And far as the min wage is concerned the adults who live on it can not afford the extra education to make more plus time is a big issue too. Most min wage earners have to work overtime and sometimes 2 or more jobs to live above poverty. In this day and age the high School diploma is nothing without a degree from a university etc. Just something to think about
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7) "Thomas Paine" [by Anonymous Citizen on July 18, 2007]
Governments setting wages and/or prices has been a miserable failure in our country and other countries, in recent times and in the past. The minimum wage and the living wage are feel good ideas, but they fail in the face of economic reality.
The invisible hand of the market, each business owner deciding how many people to employ, at what skill level and at what salary/wage, is the fairest method of setting compensation levels. Many of the business owners may make mistakes in deciding who, how many and at what wage they'll hire, but their mistakes will be softened and leveled out but other business owners making their own decisions. This is the fairest way for wages/salaries to be set.
You may wish that the forklift operator made a higher wage than the call center operator or vice versa, but their economic value to their respective businesses are accurately reflected in what they are being paid. If one or the other wants to be paid more, they can find another job, get more training, change careers, etc. No one has to remain making the minimum wage; in fact, very few people stay at that level very long. Fortunately, it's a free country. We have no cast system here.
The American dream is still alive because we have mistakenly adopted only a few of the concepts of socialism and central government planning, like the minimum wage.
Increasing the minimum wage is a silly political ploy that disrupts the free market system periodically and buys votes of the uninformed for the politicians who promote the idea. Fortunately, it doesn't do irreparable harm to our economy. Neither does it solve the economic woes of those in low-skill jobs. But it does insure the job security of the politicians who promote it. Hmmmmm!
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8) think about this [by Anonymous Citizen on July 5, 2007]
the raise in minimum wage will only help kentuckys economy. First of all 9 out of 10 people that are working for minimum wage are getting paid minimum wage because they are not usually doing that amount of work mentally of physically. Second of all most minimum wage employees are high school and college aged kids so putting more money in their pocket is a good thing. What do you think kids are going to do with more money?? Save it maybe?? No kids are going to spend more which will boost the economy. The downside of the increase is that in order to increase the wage the business paying the wage will most likely fire someone to be able to pay the extra money. In this example I would say that Kentucky will be willing to force 1 out of 10 people to find another job for the economic improvements this wage will cause.
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9) Mininum Wage [by KENTUCKYCOUNTRY on July 8, 2007]
There are penty of adult people all across the state of kentucky and all 50 usa states that are having to make a living on the current usa mininum wage.There are adults in every county/city/state that have to try and make a living on mininum wage.What we really need in all 50-states in a living wage law that would guarantee workers a honest living wage of $14.00- to $16.00- dollars per hour ( it should be at least $12.00- dollars per hour , a person needs to make $12.00- dollars per hour to stay above the usa poverty scale and wages in the usa ).
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10) you realize that... [by newmark on July 11, 2007]
(1) this discussion is moot, because a minimum wage law has already passed, the first phase took effect 10 days ago, and further discussion of it is stupid
(2) if the minimum wage was $12/hr, the poverty level line would be increased as well, because the cost of all goods and services goes up, as well. So there's no way to keep minimum wage above the poverty line.
(3) raising the minimum wage to $50/hr wouldn't solve anything. increasing minimum wage is not the answer.
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11) min wage reply [by Anonymous Citizen on January 15, 2008]
Increasing the minimum wage hurts everyone because the price of everything else goes up too. They raise the price of food twenty cents when the minimum wage goes up fifteen cents. It costs a dollar more to rent a movie and so on. The people who make more than min wage do not get an increase so they actually make less because everything else goes up. We need to put a cap on everything and then let everyone make 14 or more an hour for a couple of years just so people can get caught up on all their bills and actually be able to put it back into the economy by spending more. I live in Oregon and every year the min wage goes up. It is getting harder to stay in Oregon the average price of buying a house here is 250,000 for a two bed shack on no property. Electric is sky high and we pay 3to4 dollars for a gallon of milk or bread. I have a family of five and we can not survive on our own. We bought a house with my parents because we could not afford to buy one on our own. I make 10 dollars and hour and my husband 15 and we have to borrow gas money just to make it week to week. We have thought about moving to Tennessee because the housing market is better but because of your min wage we are having second thoughts. I have a bachelors degree my husband no degree. But he has always thankfully had a decent paying job. We moved from another town in Oregon because my husband made to much and we were owing the government 2000 every year we made to much so we moved to the coast to make less so we wouln't get hit by the government every year but now we barely survive. The government hurts the middle class americans the worse. Poverty gets help, the rich get right offs the rest of us are being pushed down. Soon there will only be the wealthy and the poverty. That's what they want. Only the rich will be able to drive their cars and afford health care and to eat healthy.
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12) goods and services do not go up cause of a rise in pay [by Anonymous Citizen on July 12, 2007]
The cost of goods and services are all ready up. rent here(a small town in east KY were the only good job it going in a coal mines) is $400 a month for an apartment.
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13) prices are going up... [by Anonymous Citizen on July 16, 2007]
Minimum wage already went up, guy. This is just the first round. Expect the cost of everything to increase consistently over the next 3 years as minimum wage is increased every year.


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14) it already went up [by Anonymous Citizen on July 16, 2007]
The minimum wage already went up, too.
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15) Minimum wage [by Anonymous Citizen on June 21, 2007]
I like how everyone that does not work for minimum wage, is against raising it.

A comment was made that it would head Kentucky to be a welfare state. My reply is to open your eyes, and take a look around you. Kentucky is already a welfare state. There is nothing common about wealth in the commonwealth.
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16) USA LIVING WAGE [by KENTUCKYCOUNTRY on April 14, 2007]
It time that here in the usa in all 50-states no matter what you are and job is that there be a mandated usa living wage of at least $12.00- to $14.00- dollars per hour.We need to raise the present usa mininum wage by at least $2.00- dollars per hour automatically every 04-years every time we elected a usa president into office until we see and get a usa living wage of at least $12.00- to $14.00- dollars per hour.There is no reason why any person in the usa has to try and make a living on a poverty income wages , there is no reason and excuse for this to be happening in the usa.
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17) It won't help [by newmark on April 17, 2007]
We've been over this. It won't help to simply increase minimum wage. The economy will counteract any minimum wage increase. We've seen this already in the increase in prices in restaurants in the Northern Kentucky area. Prices are already going up here because Ohio's minimum wage has gone up, and many of the restaurants here are Ohio-based, or have Ohio-based suppliers.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070331/BIZ01/703310334/-1/all

Pay special attention to "Taking It Away". Empirical data that shows that minimum wage increases have already pushed the prices of food up to where this guy, who was making more than the old minimum wage, but less than the new minimum wage, has been hurt already by the increase.

As I've stated in response to other legislation, minimum wage increases hurt the low wage worker, not help.

The money comes from somewhere. Where do you think it comes from? A tree? The heavens? It comes from all of us, in the form of increased prices. Do you expect businesses to absorb that cost? Then you're mistaken. The costs are passed through to the consumer.


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18) washington? [by Anonymous Citizen on March 25, 2007]
I don't understand why people are arguing the economic impact of raising the minimum wage. If you argue that it benefits no one, but hurts the consumer, you're wrong. If one buys a cheeseburger now with what one is making, and then one buys a cheeseburger after the minimum is raised (and the cost of the cheeseburger is raised) one is affected the same. The biggest impact of raising the minimum wage is circulating more dollars in the fragile economy that the United States and Kentucky are facing today. This raise will build the moral of the base workers that were above mentioned. It is argued that Washinton state has raised the minimum wage considerably higher than ours now, and they have seen a price increase considerably higher than ours now; then why if it were such a bad idea to raise it, and the state is now seeing it's mistake, why is not being lowered? Why is the ecomomy of Washington so much stronger than that of Kentucky? The CFED gives Kentucky grades of C,C,and D for performace, business vitality, and development capacity respectively; if raising the minimum wage in Washington had such a negative effect, why were their scores B,C, and A respectively? Everyone knows that with federal inflation, high gas prices, and higher cost of living increasing, raising the minimum wage is inevitable--why not now?
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19) It is vote buying - plain and simpl [by Anonymous Citizen on March 26, 2007]
Raising the minimum wage does one thing and one thing only. It encourages the ‘uneducated and uninformed’ to vote for and keep the ‘unimpressive’ in office. They parade around like they are Robin Hood giving to the poor, when it is really nothing more than Marxism; a redistribution of wealth that puts a stranglehold on the economy.

What is worse is that our state legislators could not even wait for the US Congress to shove this down our throat. They had to accelerate the process of bringing inflation to Kentucky to shore up their own voter base.

Send a message. Don’t vote for any legislator that supported this Bill unless you want to push Kentucky further down the road to welfare state.
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20) response to it is vote buying [by Anonymous Citizen on June 15, 2007]
Response to It is vote buying - plain and simple.
"It encourages the ‘uneducated and uninformed’ to vote for and keep the ‘unimpressive’ in office." Give me a break. You obviously don't mind getting waited on hand and foot by the "uneducated and uninformed" while they are paid only minimum wage! You can't be so blinded by ANY politics so much that you don't think Kentucky minimum wage should have increased in seven years? Tell me that your salary hasn't increased in seven years...

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21) Because it hurts even more people [by newmark on March 26, 2007]
The reason minimum wage increases are bad is because it hurts people.

As you say, the people at the bottom are still at the bottom. The people who get squeezed the worst are those closest to the existing minimum wage.

So now that the law has passed, and the minimum is going to $6.55/hr, and then to $7.25 on July 1, 2008 (if I rememnber the number right), Anyone making more than $5.25 and less than $6.55 really gets screwed. Now their dollar is worth less, but they're actually making less money when adjusted for the resulting inflation. And the same thing will happen again from $6.55 to $7.25.

Doing the math, the minimum wage devaluation of the dollar hurts those at the bottom of the pay scale the most.

And again, if minimum wage increases didn't hurt anyone, why not just raise minimum wage to $50/hr?


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22) These comments are so typical... [by Anonymous Citizen on June 8, 2007]
I would like to see any of you making the comment "raising the minimum wage will hurt the poor", try living on $5.25 or even $7.00 an hour.

I dream of a day when selfish, greedy Americans hang up their cell phones and climb their fat asses out of their denali-sized SUVs and just once be compasionate for those on the bottom!
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23) ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE [by Anonymous Citizen on March 18, 2007]
Raising minimum wage will not improve the quality of life for anyone. In fact, it will decrease the quality of life for all Kentuckians. Think about these points:

? The American economy (driven by large corporations and their stockholders) will self-adjust to the "new" income level of families and your dollar will buy you no more than it does now.
? Does the average Kentuckian on minimum wage live any better today than when minimum wage was $4.25? The answer is NO! The economy self-adjusted!
? Large corporations will temporarily absorb the costs, but will eventually pass them along to consumers, i.e., you and I.
? Small businesses will not be able to absorb the costs at all and many will fail. Unemployment rises! Crime rises!
? Large corporations eventually move operations overseas. Unemployment rises higher! Crime rises higher!
? The current plan only works to eliminate the middle class and create an even larger gap between lower and upper classes of income.
? Government regulation of costs such as insurance, medical, energy, fuel, etc. is the only way to really fix the system that is doomed to fail. Unfortunately, these costs are the income to the very people and/or groups that support and fund government decisions.

I don't have an answer...... but, I do know that increased minimum wage is not it. Hmmm, I watch a TV program tonight that referred to America as the "new Rome" and I do believe that we are on a course that will take us to the same demise as the "old Rome."

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24) Amazingly misinformed [by Anonymous Citizen on March 13, 2007]
This is directed to those that believe a person's buying power is increased with a minimum wage hike. I am an accountant and a tax attorney. I own several restaurants in Kentucky and Ohio. I just went through this in Ohio. As a result of the Ohio increase, my menu prices went up about eleven percent overall. As did the costs that my suppliers pass onto me. All of the restaurants in Cincinnati and throughout Ohio raised their prices. Gas prices went up. Everything went up. The average restaurant makes an annual net profit of 2.5% as a percentage of their sales. Do you really think that any of these businesses are going to keep their prices steady and reduce or lose their profit? They are going to pass the increase onto the customer. There is no additional buying power. The people who received a "raise" are not better off. The only thing that happened in Ohio was that the State and local governments are now collecting more payroll taxes based on the new wage hike in Ohio. The key to climbing out of poverty is education and hard work. I know, I worked third shift in a plastics factory for $3.35 while I paid my own way through college. I was the only guy there with teeth. That probably sounds too hard for those of you that think the government's wage hike is the answer to your prayers. My old boss used to always say, "there is no Santa Claus. Someone has to pay for the soup!"
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25) HERE'S THE LINK TO THE ONE THAT'S BEING PASSED [by newmark on March 2, 2007]
Here's the KYVotes.org link to the one that's passed the House (89 to 10):

http://www.kentuckyvotes.org/RollCall.aspx?ID=218784


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26) It's about time! [by Anonymous Citizen on February 25, 2007]
No one can make a living off of $5 an hour! Making a child work for these wages is ridiculous. The standard of living has gone up and therefore the wages should equal the amount of mimimun living. The age of child labor begins at 16, at 16 children begin to drive. Gas has risen to almost $2.50 a gallon, and for the standard car that would amount to almost $25 a week. On top of that there are many other necessities of life and sometimes there are other things that come up. In my opinion they should have done this a few years ago when 9/11 happened because of the gas prices.
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27) if you're still making minimum wage... [by newmark on February 25, 2007]
If you're still making minimum wage 5 and a half years after 9/11, you may want to look into new employment.

Meanwhile, raising minimum wage will not solve the fuel price woes, or any other financial woes.

I'm currently in Seattle. The minimum wage here is $7.93/hr. Not surprisingly, the cost of everything here is more. In one month, I spent about 50% more on food that I would have at home. Gas is about 25% more than at home.

I encourage you to read the other comments, including the math behind what happens to prices when minimum wage is increased.

Speaking of math, at $2.50 per gallon, and $25 dollars in gas per week, equates to 10 gallons of gas. The average car gets about 30 MPG these days. The 16 year old vehicle I drive gets 30MPG. That comes out to 300 miles per week. This means you're driving 60 miles per day. 30 miles each way. I'm not sure where you live, but my bet is that a minimum wage job is available, closer than 30 miles from home. Alternatively, you may want to move closer to your employment.

As I've said time and time again. If raising minimum wage would resolve everyone's financial woes, why not just make minimum wage $50/hr and call it a day? I know why -- it won't solve the problem.
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28) Lets send all our jobs overseas [by Anonymous Citizen on February 28, 2007]
when it becomes law, lets see how many jobs leave KY for other states with a lower min wage or how many leave the country for China etc.

Then these people will be crying for the govt. to bail them out again.
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29) yesssir [by Anonymous Citizen on February 25, 2007]
It's about time!!!
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30) HB 17 [by Anonymous Citizen on February 15, 2007]
There will be no vote on HB 17 in the 2007 Session of the Kentucky General Assembly.
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31) Wages [by Anonymous Citizen on February 14, 2007]
We the people need to be heard.

Spend our tax money on items that make us stronger. Spend our money on US.

They need a raise to live and raise their children on.
This day and time isn't like the older days.
Families too are effected. Single families and welfare. You see our tax dollars spent on pverty levels and you gave your selfs the raise each time WE THE PEOPLE asked for a raise.

IT's time to respect those that pay your salary.
GIVE THEM A RAISE and NOT your selfs ...
No raise for the goverment workers elected to office for at least Five years.
Put the shoe on the other foot for a while.
Then you the people would know how it feels
to earn what we do and work like we do.
WE ARE THE PEOPLE.
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32) it's not a raise [by newmark on February 14, 2007]
*sigh*

Now you and I do agree that Congress should not be giving themselves a raise. Public service is supposed to come from a sense of duty, not a sense of money, power, and retirement benefits.

But increasing minimum wage doesn't solve that issue. And it won't really be a raise. If raising the minimum wage was all sunshine and lollipops, we should just increase the minimum wage to $50/hr. The reality is, the cost of every American-made good will increase, and that will raise the price on everything else in the economy, and as a double whammy result in more blue collar jobs moving overseas and/or over the border.

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33) I agree with newmark [by sjacobs on February 11, 2007]
I have read the comments and I agree with Mr. Newmark. Increasing minimum wage will increase the rate of inflation. We are looking at the wrong end of the equation.

If you make twice minimum wage now, and it increases, you are going to expect to still make twice minimum wage. The price of most goods and services is driven by the cost of workers. That is the main expense. So if everyone needs twice the salary, the cost of a farmer to harvest wheat will go up. That means the cost of bread will go up. It will force the cost of all goods to go up. So all we have done is force inflation to increase at a faster pace. And if we do it again this year, soon a loaf of bread will be $10. Sure you will be making $20 an hour on minimum wage, but did we really solve anything???

Lets look at another side of the equation. Tax. If the rate of tax can be slowed, it will slow inflation and increase everyones quality of life. Sure the govn't might not have money for all the dog parks, museums and other things that we have now. But we will be able to make a dollar go farther and last longer.

The goal needs to be to stop or slow inflation, not add to it. Increasing minimum wage will not help inflation. It will hurt everyone in KY.
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34) It's way over due!!! [by Anonymous Citizen on January 19, 2007]
It is way over due. We should have
had a raise years ago. They need to pass this law as soon as possible.
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35) RE: Ita about time [by Anonymous Citizen on June 27, 2007]
The problem with raising min wage has many various aspects to it. The major part is that the guy on the bottom gets a boost of $2 or so. Now what happens to the person who is making $8/hour. Now he has less buying power, and they obviously worked hard to make more then min wage. So as far as I am concerned we are trying to fix a problem with the wrong tools. As has been mentioned earlier, the economy will balance itself. Your "increase" will be nothing more then a tax liability, and a money generator for the government. PErsonally, if someone is so intent on making more money, GET AN EDUCATION. I had to do it while fighting in Iraq and Afghan, and I am darn sure that someone working a min wage job at McD's can put aside a little time to better them selves. As for those that say no, get over yourself, we don't owe you anything.
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36) RE- ITS ABOUT TIME [by Anonymous Citizen on July 8, 2007]
People who are getting paid $8.00- dollars per hour should not be guarantee a wage increase every time people who are making the usa mininum wage gets a wage increase , that to me is silly to think and sugguest that.( that my thought on it anyway )
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37) do the math [by newmark on January 26, 2007]
read this: http://www.kentuckyvotes.org/Comment.aspx?ID=37232&ActionID=204651

I did the math. Minimum wage increases only lead to people being having less buying power. Period. And it hurts the poor much more than it hurts the rich.


If you're at the bottom, and they move the bottom up, you'll still be at the bottom.


The "correct" way to get a raise is to make yourself more valuable to a company and get a raise. Or switch to a different company and get an increase in pay that way.

We saw others in this discussion mention that they went back to school and got a degree, and now they make good money -- well over minimum wage. I didn't go that route personally, but I did advance myself and learn new skills to increase my value to a company.


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38) Bad Math [by Anonymous Citizen on February 5, 2007]
Newark,

Thats the silliest argument I have ever read. You frame your assertion that minimium wage increases hurt the poor by using madeup terms like "buying power" and "economic advantage" which merely show the relative relationships between consumers with different incomes.

A person who makes $10 hr is neither economically advantaged nor disadvantaged by someone else moving from $5.15 to $7.00/hr. They retain the same purchasing power (which is an actual economic term refering to the amount money can buy).

A person who previously made $5.15 an hour and now makes $7.00 hr has increased their purchasing power, because they can buy more.

JB
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39) the math isn't incorrect. [by newmark on February 5, 2007]
"buying power" - The value of money, as measured by the quantity and quality of products and services it can buy. also called purchasing power. reference: http://www.investorwords.com/647/buying_power.html

"economic advantage" - Admittedly a bad term. Ignore it. What I was trying to convey is that someone making $10/hr in today's dollars has the ability to buy more stuff than someone making $5.15/hr in today's dollars. And I think we can agree there.


You say "A person who makes $10 hr is neither economically advantaged nor disadvantaged by someone else moving from $5.15 to $7.00/hr. They retain the same purchasing power (which is an actual economic term refering to the amount money can buy)."

First, let me reference the above, where "purchasing power" and "buying power" are the same thing.

Someone simply getting a raise does not necessarily effect every one, no.

However, if you give EVERYONE at $5.15, and up to $6.99 per hour, a raise, across the board, by increasing the minimum, you move the overall cost of labor up as well. And the low-end labor is the most basic of all general labor. The business or laborer doesn't eat that cost. The cost is passed along to the consumer.

That, in turn, increases the cost of every American-made good. The cost of basic items go up, and the cost increase is passed along to the next supplier, who takes the basic product and makes something else with it. They pass the cost on to the next supplier. And so on, until it reaches the consumer.

This means that the cost of every item will go up. Period. Today's $5.15 will be worth tomorrow's $7.

Now, that cycle is avoided, if the good or item is produced overseas. Now we're not talking about American labor.

However, an increase in the cost of American labor only serves to help push basic manufacturing out of America. After a minimum wage increase, a Chinese kid is available to do the work that the factory laborer was doing in the past, for less money. And the shipping costs are not high enough to encourage keeping the job here. So we say goodbye to more American blue-collar jobs.

It also encourages illegal immigration, which is not about "doing the jobs that Americans won't do". It's about "doing the jobs that Americas won't do -- at that price." Generally speaking, most illegal immigrants work for less than minimum wage. The supplier of goods -- the farmer, the builder, the factory owner -- has found that the way to stay competitive is to hire illegals, and pay them less than minimum wage. But wait -- that means that an American isn't in that job.


You say "A person who previously made $5.15 an hour and now makes $7.00 hr has increased their purchasing power, because they can buy more."

No. They won't, long-term. Once the economy balances out, $7 post-increase would essentially be worth just as much as $5.15 pre-increase.

Unless of course, we ship even more jobs to China and Mexico. But even that hurts the low-end of the pay scale, who usually have those jobs in the first place.

I don't know if you've read through the other responses, but, as I mentioned before. If increasing the minimum wage from $5.15/hr to $7 has no impact and is so great, why not increase the minimum wage to $50?
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40) why? [by Anonymous Citizen on January 7, 2007]
why is it such a problem to give minimum wage earners what they deserve and need to survive?
how do you think politicians and doctors would feel if they were reduced to 5.15 an hour? wouldnt it be changed then?
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41) It All Boils Down To... [by Anonymous Citizen on January 2, 2007]
It really all boils down to this:

SMALL COMPANIES are afraid to pay more wages – fear of losing their profits.

With rising costs, WORKERS can't pay all the bills and eat on minimum wage.

If wages are increased –

The small companies will need to rethink their business model in a particular area. If they can't afford to pay the higher minimum wage, either switch businesses or shut down and relocate to a better market.

If wages aren't increased –

The workers will need to relocate to a more competitive job market (like Northern KY) or struggle to seek higher education, then relocate for better pay (even out of state if needed).

Either way, the cost of living will rise to surpass the new wages paid anyway, to increase business profits once again. It's a cycle.
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42) But math shows increase hurts the poor [by newmark on January 25, 2007]
Doing the minimum wage math. Yes, I was this bored.

I decided to mock-up the math, and try to show where the economic effect of minimum wage increases are felt.



Today, someone making $10/hr has a 1.94 times the buying power of someone making today's minimum wage at $5.15/hr.

10.00 / 5.15 = 1.94


After the proposed minimum wage increase, someone making $10/hr will have only 1.42 the buying power of someone making the new minimum wage, at $7.00/hr.

10.00 / 7.00 = 1.42


This means that, economically, the buying power and economic advantage of the person making $10/hr decreases 18.87%.

( 1 / 1.94 ) - ( 1 / 1.42 ) = -0.1887 x 100% = -18.87%




Now let's look at the math for someone making $6.50/hr today, who's employer is only going to move them to the new minimum wage.

Today, the person makes $6.50 per hour, which is 1.26 the buying power of the current minimum wage

6.50 / 5.15 = 1.26


After the minimum wage is increased, this person now makes $7/hr, which is the minimum wage.

7.00 / 7.00 = 1.00


This means that after being moved from $6.50/hr to the proposed new minimum wage of $7/hr, you lose 20.63% of the buying power you had before.

( 1 / 1.26 ) - ( 1 / 1 ) = -0.2063 x 100% = -20.63%



Now let's look at the math for someone making $6.50/hr today, who's employer is going to give them a raise equal in dollars to the amount minimum wage will go up.

First, how much difference is there between existing minimum wage and what they're being paid? $1.35/hr.

6.50 - 5.15 = 1.35

Today, the person makes $6.50 per hour, which is 1.26 the buying power of the current minimum wage

6.50 / 5.15 = 1.26


After the minimum wage is increased, this person now makes $8.35/hr, which is the $1.35/hr above minimum wage they made before.

7.00 + 1.35 = 8.35


And $8.35 is 1.19 the buying power of a $7/hr minimum wage.

8.35 / 7.00 = 1.19


This means that after being moved from $6.50/hr when the minimum wage was $5.15/hr, to a wage of $8.35/hr after the proposed new minimum wage hike of $7/hr, you STILL lose 4.66% of the buying power you had before.

( 1 / 1.26 ) - ( 1 / 1.19 ) = -0.0466 x 100% = -4.66%





Now let's use the same math for someone making minimum wage, and continuing to make minimum wage after the proposed increase.


Today, the person makes $5.15 per hour, or 0% advantage over any other minimum wage worker.

5.15 / 5.15 = 1


After the minimum wage in increased, they still make minimum wge, at the new $7/hr rate.

7.00 / 7.00 = 1


This means that a minimum wage worker has no more economic advantage than they did before!

( 1 / 1 ) - ( 1 / 1 ) = 0 * 100% = 0






Now, let's look at the math, comparing minimum wage with someone doing considerably better, making $100/hr.

Today, someone making $100/hr has a 19.42 times the buying power of someone making today's minimum wage at $5.15/hr.

100.00 / 5.15 = 19.42


After the proposed minimum wage increase, someone making $10/hr will have only 1.42 the buying power of someone making the new minimum wage, at $7.00/hr.

100.00 / 7.00 = 14.29



This means that, economically, the buying power and economic advantage of the person making $100/hr decreases a mere 1.89%.

( 1 / 19.42 ) - ( 1 / 14.29 ) = -0.01887 x 100% = -1.89%



So, someone making minimum wage and gets bumped to a new higher minimum wage has the same buying power before they moved the minimum wage higher.

Those making above the old minimum wage, but under the new minimum wage are hurt the most. They lose all economic advantage they had, and get moved to the new bottom.

Those who get a raise equal to the number of dollars that minimum wage increases by still lose.

Those at the top of earners are effected the least.





Meanwhile, I'm working in Washington state for a month. The cost of everything is higher. I did a little investigation, and found out why.

Washington State's state minimum wage is $7.93, according to Dept. Of Labor website: http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm . This means that the amount of goods, using the math I've used in the past, should be about 1.5 times as much as in Kentucky. Or it should cost 64.94% of what it costs to live in Washington State as it does to live in Kentucky.

$7.93 / $5.15 = 1.54
1 / 1.54 = .6494 x 100% = 64.94%


The cost of fast-food double cheeseburger meal in Washington State is approximately $5.25
The cost of fast-food double cheeseburger meal in Kentucky is approximately $3.50
Doing the math, we find that this is exactly 1.5 times as much. That's pretty darn close to our 1.54 number above. You'll pay only 66.67% of what it would cost to eat a Double Cheeseburger meal in Washington state.

$5.25 / $3.50 = 1.50
1 / 1.5 = .6667 x 100% = 66.67%

So the net result is that making minimum wage here, in Washington state, at $7.93/hr, gives you the same buying power on a cheeseburger as minimum wage in Kentucky, at $5.15/hr.


Gas here is $2.59/gallon today. At home, gas is $1.92/gallon today. This is a multiple of 1.35. (or said differently, gas in Kentucky costs only 74.07% of what it does in Washington state.)

2.59 / 1.92 = 1.35
1 / 1.35 = .7407 x 100% = 74.07%

That figure's not quite so bad as the food numbers, but that may have more to do with how taxes are done, and foreign oil prices, etc etc.


I plan to find out the average price of a tune-up for a car today, as well as other common needs (plumber, roofer, general contractor/construction labor, etc), just to see what the difference in cost is, because I'm sure labor costs will be higher, and labor is usually up to 70% of the bill these days. I'm looking to find the numbers on the basics -- food, clothing, shelter, and transportation -- to get a good comparison.

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43) Boils down to [by Anonymous Citizen on January 24, 2007]
There is a link between higher wages and inflation. Especially since savings rates are at an all time low.
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44) minimum wage [by Anonymous Citizen on December 22, 2006]
I am a mother of two working at a local department store for $6.20 per hour.I also pay daycare for one of my children.I a gree to raise the minimum wage.
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45) some additional information [by newmark on January 25, 2007]
A friend of mine is a daycare owner/operator in Northern Kentucky. I talked to him recently about the proposed minimum wage increases, and the effect it would have on his business.


Off the bat, he mentioned that raising the minimum wage "won't help pay child care costs at all."


First, he explained about how Kentucky already covers a large part of daycare bills. "The Kentucky child care assistance program pays for the majority of the cost of daycare for low income families. If the amount of money they are earning increases because of an increase in minimum wage, the copay they owe will increase."

"The state will pay X amount to your child care provider per child. For example, based on your income the state may pay $120/week per child yet the actual cost of child care is $140/week per child you are paying the $20 difference. While I don't know the exact formula they use to determine the amount you pay I know the slightest wage increase does lower the amount the state pays, and raises the amount the parent must pay out of pocket."

This means that an increase in minimum wage will increase the amount that the parent(s) would have to pay out-of-pocket, right off the bat.


He went on to mention that "90% of our cost is labor." Therefore, "since most of our employees would get an increase in pay if the minimum wage were to be increased, our rates would have to go up an equal percentage. Combine that with the fact the state would pay less because they now make more money, they may end up with less money left over."

This means that the cost per child would be increased for the business, and the business would pass that cost on to you. So increasing minimum wage would also increase the amount you would have to pay out of pocket.


And to add insult to injury, as I mentioned to you before, You would lose your current 20% economic advantage over the current minimum wage. So you essentially take a 20% pay decrease. The amount you are paid goes up, but the buying power of every dollar goes down.


So, the net result of a minimum wage increase would be that you would actually be paying more for the same service. The state would be reimbursing less, because your income level would be increased. Strike one. You would also pay more, because the cost per child would increase and be passed along to you, the consumer. Strike two. You would also have less buying power, with the newly-devalued dollar. Strike three.

You would end up on the losing end of the deal.
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46) Raising minimum wage won't help [by newmark on December 26, 2006]
Right now, you have an economic advantage over someone making minimum wage. As minimum wage is currently $5.15, you currently make 20% more than minimum wage.

If minimum wage is raised, do you think the store will increase your pay 20% beyond the new minimum wage level? Hardly.

This means you will lose the economic advantage you have today. While you will make more money, you will have *LESS* buying power with that extra money. Because the cost of everything else will go up along with minimum wage.


When minimum wage goes up, it takes away from the value of a dollar. It hurts those at the bottom of the pay-scale the most.


How much do you think those working at the daycare make? Where do they buy materials? How do those materials get to the store?

When minimum wage goes up, the cost of their materials and salaries at the daycare will also go up. This cost will be passed on to you, and make your per-child "tuition" higher.

Raising the minimum wage higher will not make your current situation better. In fact, it will make it worse.


My personal recommendation to you is to get out of retail. Very few people get very far in retail. I was there once myself. I worked my tail off and never received a raise. There are industries that appreciate hard work. Retail isn't one of them.

Then again, my sister was a manager over a department in a more "high-end" retail store, before she got married and quit. I mean, it's possible. But my sister's the only person I know that has ever been promoted in retail.

Either way, I hope that you continue to move up in the pay-scale.

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47) Do something right [by Anonymous Citizen on December 1, 2006]
I find it amazing how people automatically generate responses to this by comparing "the greedy" and "the working class". Somehow people in America have an entitlement mentality. Nothing is owed to anyone. If you want a QUALITY social program, increase education / Job Training funding so that people like Dennis can make themselves better qualified for the higher paying positions. 8 years ago I was making minimum wage and I went back to school and achieved a degree. Now I make 6 times what I was making. Raising the minimum wage only allows people to stay in their current positions. Do something so they can raise their abilities and class.
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48) lower prices on education..not increase minimum wage [by Anonymous Citizen on June 28, 2007]
I agree...lower the price of education..so the people can earn a degree..and get a better job!
I usually dont get into politics or this sort of thing, but after reading both sides of this argument, I say that everyone needs a fair advantage to an education so that we are all able to get our foot in the door to a better living. If you increase minimum wage..it might help some people, but really hurt others..for example: Some people are on disability, but still have to work a minimum wage job to make the bills...if the minimum wage job goes up..guess what...they wont qualify for disability anymore..it's really something to think about. Either way..it's not fair and it's pretty twisted in my opinion! And before you argue my point...some people really do need to be on disablity. I am a college student working a job that pays a little over minimum wage, plus I work as an intern making minimum wage until I get hired on full time. Education is the key to my struggle. I got financial aid because I didnt make enough money on my job to pay for my education out of pocket. If the minimum wage had gone up, I wouldnt have qualified for financial aid. Either way, like I said before it's twisted!
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49) STOP WHINING [by GOCATS on November 5, 2006]
Listen, the minimum wage needs to be raised a little. Honestly, most people somewhat try to make an honest living. The reason that America can't get Americans to do some of the "less desirable" jobs is because America doesn't want to pay a desirable wage. I don't know about you, but yes waiting tables for people who aren't appreciative is tough work. Washing peoples linens from hotel rooms where who knows what has been going on, is hard work. Don't get upset about them getting a raise because you aren't getting one.
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50) minimum wage is fine where it is... [by newmark on November 10, 2006]
Minimum wage increases will not make someone's quality of life any better. Period.

The cost of every good made by American workers will go up.

It will help push more jobs overseas and/or to Mexico.

It will help push more entry-level jobs to surrounding states without a minimum wage.

The entry-level jobs moving to other states means a loss in tax revenue for the state.

The vast majority of people making minimum wage are students, who live at home. Minimum wage is an entry-level wage. People shouldn't remain there.

White Castle in Northern Kentucky is hiring, $9/hr. Health Insurance. 401k. If you're not getting anywhere near that, perhaps you need to consider moving to where the jobs are.


I suspect that after Ohio's double-whammy statewide smoking ban and minimum wage increase, that Northern Kentucky will become a hotbed of entry level jobs, restaurants, and other entertainment venues.

So come on up! There are "now hiring" signs a plenty.
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51) why [by Anonymous Citizen on December 1, 2006]
We shouldnt have to move to find a job that will pay a decent wage. If white castle pays 9 dollars an hour to start, then 9 dollars an hour should be what starting pay is in eastern kentucky for white castle also.
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52) the "i should" mentality [by newmark on December 5, 2006]
I don't understand where people get the idea that they should be entitled to a wage.

To increase my wage, I travel for a living. This gives me a 20% upgrade in pay, in exchange for less time at home with family and friends.

In the part of Kentucky in which I live, there are no "jobs" outside of farming (which, for the record, is one of the toughest ways to make a living -- which is why I don't do it). So I travel a good distance to Cincinnati, when not working a job involving traveling.

If you are unable to make a living in a certain part of Kentucky, or even a certain part of the country, why do you continue to live there? Why should business in one part of the state or country be responsible for bringing jobs to another part of the state or country?


And again, as stated many times, you could jack minimum wage up to $50 per hour, and in 2 years time, the economy will have adjusted, and $50 then will be just like $5.15 now. You will just have a lot more people making minimum wage.


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53) RE-MININUM WAGES [by KENTUCKYCOUNTRY on November 13, 2006]
The idea that the mininum wage is just fine where it is at $5.15- per hour is just crazy.We always hear the fear tactics from the republicans who are and have always been against raising the usa mininum wage , they always say that the costs of goods will go up because of the raise in the usa mininum wages and of course they never do.We are no longer going to believe and fall for the fear tactics of the republicans who are against the raising of the usa mininum wage.We should all be out-rage that it has almost been 10-years since the usa mininum wage was last raise.The last time the usa mininum wage was last raise and increase was in 1996 under the Clinton/Gore Presidency.We have seen people working for $5.15- per hour during the last 10-years without a raise but during the same time we have seen are usa congress give them-selves 9-pay salery increases in the last 10-years.It time to step up a give a mininum wage raise increase.
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54) It does increase the costs of goods and services [by newmark on November 13, 2006]
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20061109/BIZ01/611090368/
"The guest will have to pay it," Maier said.


Who do you think pays for minimum wage increases? The money doesn't fall from the sky. Private company owners don't cut their salaries. Public companies might cut dividends to stock holders, but that hurts the public as well, who have their retirement account in an IRA and/or a 401k.

If you want a better paying job, you need to earn it. Some areas in Kentucky aren't doing as well as others -- believe me, I'm now keenly aware of some of the problems within Kentucky's 4th Congressional District. But raising the minimum wage won't help! If someone makes $5.15 as the minimum wage, or they make $7 as the minimum wage, they're still making minimum wage -- they are still the bottom of the pay scale.

What I have learned, however, is who is supporting the increase in the minimum wage. I recently learned that many Union contracts have automatic wage increases built-in, if minimum wage is increased. This is apparently from where the majority of support for a minimum wage increase is coming.

Only approximately 2% of Americans make minimum wage. The vast majority of that 2% people are students. Students are, for the most part, not even politically active as a voting block.

So this has nothing to do with helping the little guy making minimum wage. This has everything to do with helping the Unions.

Entertainingly, this still will hurt the Unions as well. As the cost of Union goods goes up, it becomes harder and harder for US companies to compete, even in America. Their raw cost of personnel goes up. How do you make that cost go down? Move the personnel to Mexico, or China.

It becomes difficult for people like me, who intentionally seek out "Made in the USA" goods, to justify buying American goods. Currently, I use a 15% rule. I'm willing to pay up to 15% more for a good if it's made in the USA rather than in China. But if it costs 50% more, and the quality isn't there, forget about it. If you keep jacking up the cost of American goods, there'll be no buyers of American-made goods left. If there are no buyers left, there won't be any JOBS left.

It's not all gloom and doom, though.

Ohio raising their minimum wage WILL help Kentucky. And coupled with their statewide smoking ban, the entertainment districts along Ohio's border will move to other states, including Kentucky. Entry level jobs will move to Kentucky. And this will improve our state's workforce.


And just so we're all clear, I am neither a Republicrat or a Democan. I find both of those parties unprincipled and self-serving.


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55) my opinion [by Anonymous Citizen on November 8, 2006]
Ok here it goes I have read everyone's coments and here is my take on the situation. My husband makes 5.75/ hour we have 5 kids two are from my 1st marriage and 2 from his and one together. He has to pay 400 per month for childsupport. He works 45-50 hours per week and still only brings home 450 every two weeks that means that we only get 500 of it. Now if it werent for the fact that my first husband is deceased and I get a decent check for the children there is no way possible that we would be able to live on what he makes unless we lived off of the system. Now this is my point most people in kentucky do not have the extra income that I have and they have to live off of the 5.15/hr that still leaves them living off of the welfare system so if they raise the minimum wage to a decent amount like 7/hr we wouldnt have as many people living off the system. But when you make more sitting home than working 40 hours a week how can we blame them? And as far as the education goes I have a bachelor's degree and in order to make a decent amount I would have to drive an hour to ohio or west virginia because where I live it doesn't matter what your education level you still work for minimum wage. That is why when I moved from columbus ohio to kentucky and was a mananger of a big corp. I quit because i was going to go from 12/ hour to 6/hour. What since does that make because the cost of living is not that much cheaper here. The only thing that is cheaper is cigarettes and I dont smoke. So in the end I think they should raise the minimum wage and as far as small businesses go there would be more if people had the money to start one but working for 5.15/hr how can they have anything?????????
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56) VOTING RIGHTS [by KENTUCKYCOUNTRY on September 9, 2006]
I like to ask and encourage all citizens of kentucky to get out and vote this november-2006. Do not take your voting rights lightly.It does not matter what person or political party you support and vote for as long as you excercise your rights and duty to Vote in all and every election.
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57) min. wage [by Anonymous Citizen on August 23, 2006]
I think it's a great idea... The cost of living is getting so expensive, and not all of us get paid 13 and 14 bux an hr.. Honestly, *I* am making minimum wage. I wouldn't mind a raise in the least!

With gas prices going sky high, and everything else, I dont see what the big deal is myself..


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58) MININUM WAGE LAWS [by KENTUCKYCOUNTRY on August 2, 2006]
We need to have a automatic increase in the usa and kentucky mininum wage every 4-years every time we elect a usa president.We need to increase the usa and state of kentucky mininum wage by $2.00- dollars per hour every 4-years til we reach a usa mininum wage of $12.00- dollars per hour that will keep all usa workers above the usa poverty wages and incomes scales.
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59) Outrageous Idea [by Anonymous Citizen on April 13, 2007]
Sir your idea is insane, if the average person was to make $12 an hour then how would the government justify the fact that people flopping Whoppers would be make half as much money as a teacher in a public school. You know that teachers won't get a raise, the teachers of this country are ones of the last ones to see any of the money that comes through our "great" state.
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60) adult educator [by Anonymous Citizen on September 5, 2006]
Where did you learn economics and business -probably in the failing Ky school system.
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61) Increasing minimum wage hurts workers [by newmark on August 14, 2006]
The goal of each American having a "livable wage" is a noble cause, however, raising the minimum wage will not accomplish this goal.

Raising the minimum wage hurts lower income workers in several ways.

(1) Raising the minimum wage increases the cost of all goods produced with minimum wage labor. Therefore, increasing minimum wage does not automatically increase wealth. Do you want to pay $1.50 for a White Castle burger?

(2) Minimum wage increases hurt small businesses more than large businesses, and decreases their ability to hire additional workers. This is often off-set by medium-sized businesses by hiring illegal immigrants and other undocumented workers, who are paid under the table; which in turn increases the percentage of the tax burden on every legal worker.

(3) Setting the base at $12/hr means that everyone who has worked to get raises above minimum wage will effectively have those gains wiped out, and reset back to the minimum.

I know that when I was first in the workforce, the minimum wage was $4.25. I worked hard and recieved wage increases in return. My pay was increased to $5.25 per hour. Then, minimum wage was increased to $5.15 per hour. Essentially, I lost $0.90 of the $1.00 per hour economic advantage I had gained through hard work.

Minimum wage is designed to prevent outright exploitation and virtual slavery for those entering the workforce.

The key to breaking free of the chains of minimum wage is a combination of education and hard work.

Most entry level jobs in the state of Kentucky already pay more than the minimum wage anyway. If you increase the minimum wage nationwide, you would take away the apparent economic advantage that entry-level workers already have today within the state of Kentucky.

From the KY Enquirer, dated July 27th, 2006: http://tinyurl.com/ehdpo

...
"The fast-food industry, once the bastion of minimum wage workers, now pays in excess of the minimum wage"
...
Steve Stevens, president of the Northern Kentucky Chamber of Commerce, said the average entry-level job in the eight-county Northern Kentucky region pays $7.94 an hour. The statewide average is $6.94, Stevens said.


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62) citizen Jane Doe [by Anonymous Citizen on September 12, 2006]
Well that's all good isn't it? yeah, keep the wages low so certain entities don't have to fork out so much wages to employees, and they can still make them work like dogs for chicken feed! Lord forbid they might not make as much profit and be able to pocket the dough!!! I mean after all, how would they be able to afford their fancy houses and cars, and their luxurious life style! lol!! And the have-nots should remain have-nots!! never mind that there should be stiff laws and penalties in place for people who use the danged illegal alieans who come in here and, like ya said, work for cheaper wages under the table and not pay taxes like the rest of us do! And then when they have enough money and they wanna go back to their country why all they have ta do is scoot on over to the fed agency and get a free ride back to their country! Where they can live like kings with their "american money"!! And then there's the fact that when they return they're probably smuggling drugs into our country while they're at it! meanwhile jobs are scarce because the big businesses know they can get smaller poorer countries to do the work for real cheap!!
that translates inot money saved/more profits, and avoidance of paying the workforce here what they should, by rights, have!! Screw that!!!!
it would take too much of a bite out of their wallets! Besides, they'd have to pay more taxes on wages, and pay for the more costly insurances!!
All right??? where's the American spending power??
Well sir, how can minumum wage earners spend on what they need or want if they aren't getting enough to begin with? Minumum wages are too low ya numscal!! And not hardly any or no medical insurance coverage, so they are kept a lot of times from earning fulltime hours, kept at 20 to 30 hours a week! overtime?? Holy Moly!!!! Businesses don't want to pay that!!
Hoiday pay? Well if you're lucky you might get it! companies don't like paying that!!! they want to purposefully keep everything cheap!!! Including their products!!! Things that are usually either flawed to begin with or break and fall apart only after a very short time! Pride in products? Or services?? lol!! naw!! it went bye bye!! Loyalty and hard work from their employees? Well where's the loyalty and respect from the employers?? Oh haven't you heard the latest? Now people who are retiring to get a pension find themselves slammed with a law suit and going to court because their former employers don't want to pay it out!! they are suing their former employees for back pay of the pension!
why you say? they don't have the money to pay for all the pensions the employees earned! the loyal "hard-working employees who had some money taken out of each paycheck put back for retirement benefits!!! the same of which the employers were supposed to be matching with company money!! So!!!!! what happened with the matching funds?? where's all that money deucted from employee's paychecks? I smell a dirty rat!!!!
there's an awful lot of dirty laundry to air! Crooked deals and shady goings on! Crooked political stuff!! Wouldn't you say?

Who's going to take care of these poor indigent people who remain repressed around here? You know, the ones who can't make it because they can't get enough pay or jobs?
what good is it going to do to have highly educated children if there's no decent paying jobs for them to go to after they get their high educations?
Explain that to me? seems like the ones who did get higher training and education are leaving and going somewhere else where they "can reicieve what they want! Higher wages and security!!!
What a shame!! kentucky is losing out!!!
Hey!!! Ya snooze, Ya lose!!!!
Go ahead!! Keep the minimum wage low!!! Gee, I wonder what Kentucky would look like(fast forward to the future for a sec), Ghost towns all over!!
Aint nothin here!! Everybody vamosed!!

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63) dear sweet citizen Jane Doe [by newmark on October 5, 2006]
The rhetoric of "haves" and "have-nots" is entertaining. Mainly because it brings back memories of the glory days of the Soviet Union. Oh, wait a minute.

But you do bring up several good points, on which we actually agree.

I agree that employers using illegal immigrants should be heavily fined. I think $10,000 per illegal employee should be enough incentive to not use them.

I agree that sending jobs overseas hurts the American worker. I believe that the globalization of the world economy means that we're all going to end up in a world-wide "economic average", meaning that the 3rd world will come up, and advanced nations like the US will go down.

Where we differ slightly is how to resolve the issue.

Personally, I believe the only way to fix the problem is to really create an environment we were told about as kids: In America, you can make it as far as you're able to go. Anyone can be president. Anyone can become rich.

How do we create that environment? We need a level playing field for competition. Big business buys politicians to protect their interests. We, the individuals and small businesses, don't have that sort of money or influence.

Almost every law that's passed has an exception. Look at the tax code, for example. Why do those exceptions exist? Because somewhere some big donor is being protected. Environmental laws that are passed allow existing businesses to be grandfathered in. What does that mean? The old businesses keep making money as they used to, but it keeps new businesses from coming into the market, since they have to make and charge more for their product, and therefore can't compete.

So, in my opinion, the way to solve the problem is to scrap it all. Make a level, even playing field. No exceptions built into laws. Either it's a good law that can be universally applied, or its a bad law.

This would actually result in increased wages for the most skilled of workers. Employees are a resource. If the consumer demands a higher quality resource (which would be better determined with more competition), the best employees would be paid more. If the company has to compete on price, they will pay a bit more for the top skilled workers who can do the job more efficiently.


I will repeat the same concept posted in another message -- if you want to get ahead in life, you need to better yourself. If you are always at the bottom, even if the bottom is raised, you are still at the bottom. Educate yourself. Fine tune your skills.

Minimum wage can be a livable wage. I got married. I had a child. I started out at minimum wage. I tuned my skills. I got an entry level job in the field in which I was skilled. Fast forward 10 years, and I'm doing much better than minimum wage now. It's absolutely doable. Don't wait for someone else to do it for you -- they won't.

PS. Again, the collective you here is not directed at any one individual.

PPS. I would recommend some writing classes. That may be a good start.
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64) bloodhound [by Kentucky Blue on October 20, 2006]
A lot of states have actually adopted the theory of raising the minimum wage to good results I might add, one example would be Oregon, in January of this year Oregon added another .25 cents to bring it's minimum wage up to $7.50 a hour.
An analysis showed that restaurant jobs increased by 7.7% between the first quarter of 2002 and the first quarter of 2005, fast food jobs had a net gain of 10.3%, so it would seem that in this instance the minimum wage actually has helped the market more than hurt it and it allows the ones of society live working for only minimum wage live a more better life.
The Fiscal Policy Institute which is a non-partisan research organization, has also put out numbers on many states who have raised the minimum wage themselves, many states have done this including, California,Alaska,Michigan and Wisconsin to name a few.
The small business growth with fewer than 50 employees grew by 5.4%,"IN THE HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE STATES" compared to a 4.2% "FOR THE BALANCE OF THE REMAINING STATES COMBINED."
So what have we learned from this? Well it would seem we have more 'small business growth' in the states that choose to pay their minimum wage higher, just touting that small business will be hurt over paying a higher minimum wage does not hold true when we look at the numbers.
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65) quick response [by newmark on November 2, 2006]
I apologize, I'm a bit busy right now, with election season almost over. And I'll be happy when we can go back to politicans that just pretend to care and do things.

But I wanted to mention that just beause business grows in an area, or overall in areas that raise minimum wage at a slightly greater rate than areas that did not, that it does not prove cause and effect. It doesn't take into account that there may have been an even greater amount of growth. Nor does it take into account the cost of living in those places. Nor does it take into account the average worker salary in those areas.

From an online salary cost-of-living calculator:

"The cost of living in Beaverton, Oregon is 32.9% higher than that of Covington, Kentucky. A salary of $25,000 in Covington, Kentucky has the same buying power that a salary of $33,232 has in Beaverton, Oregon."

So to maintain the same standard of living from Covington, Kentucky, to Beaverton, Oregon, you'd have to make 32.9% more money. If you do the math on that, you'll see that their cost of living very closely reflects the increase in their minimum wage.

Then the question becomes: Does minimum wage increase cost of living, or does cost of living give cause for increasing minimum wage?


More after the election....
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66) in the know [by Anonymous Citizen on December 2, 2006]
Oregon is not the only state that has the minimum wage higher than Kentucky, you should know that we are in the minority here. Saying that business will suffer, well, that dog just won't hunt when you look at the raw data on this.
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67) Please provide your data [by newmark on December 5, 2006]
If you are confident that the data supports that minimum wage does not hurt business, please provide this data.

Oregon was used because another person had posted data specifying Oregon as an example.

Meanwhile, I did provide data that showed that minimum wage tipped employees were hurt by minimum wage increases.


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68) Wrong [by Anonymous Citizen on September 3, 2006]
A "White Castle" burger will not cost $1.50. If you follow the simple rules of supply and demand, you will find that the cost of any item is determined by what people are willing to pay for said item.

Example: I am willing to pay $1 for a McDonalds double cheeseburger, but I am not willing to do so for $2.

Thus McDonalds, in wanting to sell burgers, will set the price for the maximum amount that individuals are willing to purchase the burger. Wages paid to employees do not set the price, the public consumer sets the price. If the price is too high, it won't sell. Period. If the price is too low, then the company is shorting itself profits.

Raising the minimum wage will do two things: Help people get closer to a sustainable way of living & cut into the profits of the mega-corporations. These small, mom and pop places may feel a sting, however, they need a viable business plan in the first place to create a business. Not paying employees a fair wage is certainly not a viable way of doing business.

Brett

assumed.identity@gmail.com
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69) predictions come true [by Anonymous Citizen on July 16, 2007]
I don't know about your White Castle, but mine just raised prices on their burgers, soon after the first round of minimum wage hikes went in.

Not to $1.50. Not yet, anyway. But we have 3 more years to see the full effects of the law that was passed.


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70) supply and demand, and quality of goods [by newmark on October 5, 2006]
If you look at the history of White Castle, you will see that a rising cost to create burgers has led to a smaller burger. People were unwilling to pay more for the burger, so in response, White Castle simply made the burgers smaller through time.

The quality of McDonald's food has decreased as well. The burgers are far more grease and fat than they were 20 years ago.

Some mega-corps solve this problem buy pressuring suppliers to get a cheaper product out to market. If the cost to produce an item is $1, and WalMart wants to buy it for $.90, how does the supplier cover the loss of $.10 per unit?

Maybe they lay some people off. Maybe they use cheaper raw materials. Either way, people get the short end of the stick in these scenarios.

Do you really believe that the large corporations, who pay for politicans to protect their interests, really get hurt by politicians raising minimum wage?

Meanwhile, a small business has 10 employees. The employees currently make $6/hr. The business is stagnant for now, but is likely to take off in the next two years, as demand increases. At an employee cost of $60/hr ($480 per day), they remain afloat, and are able to provide employment for those 10 workers. If you increase minimum wage by $1 per hour, you increase the hourly cost by $10. The daily cost by $80. The weekly cost by $400. The Monthly cost by approximately $1740. A small business, barely making it, now has a choice. Do they lay off someone? Does the small business owner take on a massive amount of personal debt to keep the business afloat? Is this amount of debt too risky?

Now, if you were forced to take a 15% pay cut, how would that effect your view of your employer? That same feeling is the feeling the small business owner would have towards his business. Is it worth it anymore? Maybe he should just quit -- and for the small business owner, that means close up shop and go be employed somewhere else.

Or maybe he lays off a couple guys, and hires a couple of illegals to make up the difference? If you look at the home construction industry, this is absolutely the case. And it's been farming's dirty little secret for many years.


Raising the minimum wage will temporarily increase wages for workers who aren't laid off. Long-term, it will increase the raw cost of goods (which will be passed to the consumer) and lead to higher unemployment.

If you want to increase your standard of living, the only way to really get ahead is through education and/or development of skills. There are, of course, other factors: Personality, luck, etc. But if you want to make more than $9/hr, you're going to have to get out of working in a factory or a fast food place. Get a job that will (partially or fully) reimburse you for going to college. Go to night school at a local community college, get an associates or bachelor's degree over the course of a few years.

Better yourself. Teach yourself to fish.

PS. The "you" in this message is a "collective" you and not directed at any one individual.


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71) What about me? [by Anonymous Citizen on December 1, 2006]
I'm not in fast food, I am not in walmart. I work in technical support. I am a manager, I make barely more than minimum wage, because I live in eastern Kentucky, (the third world nation of America). People in Lexington, Louisville, and Frankfurt make two to three times what I make. It is possible that they are indeed making a living wage. But why arent my wages up to par?
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72) You need to move, my friend. [by newmark on December 5, 2006]
As I mentioned elsewhere, you need to move.

If you lived in Somalia, and possessed a way to get out and move somewhere where you could have a good job, food on the table, etc., would you not take that opportunity?

I know that Eastern Kentucky is having economic problems, and it is, indeed, unfortunate. But that's not something that you can control.

I'm very serious when I say that you should look to move to Lexington, Louisville, Frankfort, northern Kentucky, or some other area with better economic conditions. In fact, you may want to look into Maysville. It's halfway between northern Kentucky and Ashland. I'm not sure what they have there matches your skill set, but it's a town with a very healthy economy.

If you possess the ability to lead a group in technical support, you should be able to get any entry-level management position you desire elsewhere in the state.

Even if you have to take a step down the ladder, in order to increase your income, you will still get opportunities to move back up the corporate ladder, all the while making a better living for yourself.

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73) Not the Answer... [by Anonymous Citizen on January 2, 2007]
The cost of living in Eastern Kentucky is cheaper than in Metro Lexington or Louisville. That's why your wages are lower.

The cost of property is lower ect.

But moving to the city isn't the answer either. The cost of living in the bigger cities is higher too. Therefore, it will eat away any increase in wage you'll receive.

Apartments, land, ect. cost more in the city.

It's probably best to commute to the city for big city wages, but live in the mountains at "third world" prices.

But you still need to factor in the expense of gas.
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74) Hmmm [by absher on August 14, 2006]
Yeah, we really need high school kids making $12/hr to push groceries and such. That won't cause any prices to rise. A kid working 20 hours a week would make $240/wk! I'm sure the beer companies are for it.
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75) MININUM WAGE [by KENTUCKYCOUNTRY on September 9, 2006]
We need to wake up when it comes to mininum wages , it not just kids and high schools students that are working for mininum wage , there are alot of adults who have to try and make a living on $5.15- per hour.There is no excuse in the usa for any person having to work for a poverty income and hourly wages in the usa and in the state of kentucky.We need a automatic increase the the usa mininum wage of $2.00- dollars per hour til we get and reach a usa mininum wage of $12.00- to $14.00- dollars per hour every 4-years everytime we elect a usa president into office.
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76) small business owner [by Anonymous Citizen on September 12, 2006]
My family has a small business in a rural area. An increase in minimum wage would place a harship on all of us here. We might even have to close the doors. Boy, that would really be good for everyone's income, huh?
Business owners have to be able to pay enough to keep workers. If they can't, then they get sub-par work or go out of business. Mandating such a thing from the federal government will cause MUCH more harm than good. Try to think about the paycheck you'll be getting a year from now - or 5 years from now. Think past next week.
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77) I work for a small business [by Anonymous Citizen on December 1, 2006]
I work for a small business in a rural area. I am not being paid enough. If the business that I worked for would give us raises that would make our wages match the amount of money we have going out, I wouldnt even be on this page, looking at these comments. I cant get a place of my own because I cant afford it. I drive a car that I have to pray starts in the morning because with what I bring in every month I cant afford 1) a car payment. 2) full coverage insurance. I make more than minimum wage, but not much. After taxes I bring home about a thousand dollars a month. After paying rent at four hundred dollars, my liability insurance, at one hundred fifty, paying basic stuff like electricity, water, and phone/internet access my money goes to groceries. I am really in a bind when I actually have to buy tires, or if I get sick, and have to miss a few days (which hasnt happened yet thank God). If I wanted to get married, and start a family, How can I support them?
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78) sounds like you need a different job [by newmark on December 5, 2006]
Raising minimum wage will not help your situation. Short term, the small business will either have to increase income, or let go of some of its employees, in order to cover the higher wages.

If the company makes $1000 per week, after taking out material costs, and it pays 3 employees $6 per hour, at 40 hours per week ($240 per employee per week), that leaves $280 per week for the owner, who is likely risking his home and causing extra stress in his personal life.

If the minimum wage then increases to $7 per hour, the 3 employees would get pushed to $280 per week. The owner would be pushed down to $160 per week. Now it would be better for him to close shop and go get a minimum wage job elsewhere, since he's making less than minimum wage. Or, he can let one of the 3 people go, and increase his income, while taking on more work.

Which do you believe is more likely? Will the business owner work for less than minimum wage? Will the business owner let go of one of his employees to make up the difference? Or will the owner just close the business?

Meanwhile, as I've mentioned elsewhere, the minimum wage could be increased to $50/hr, and in 2 years, the economy will have adjusted to make $50 the same value at $5.15.


I'm guessing that you are in your early 20s, based on the situation given. Please don't be offended if I've guessed wrong, but I was there myself at that age.

I want you to make more money. I want you to succeed and help grow the state's economy. I want every Kentucky resident to make a better living that the average of the surrounding states.

Please consider getting employment elsewhere. I love working for small businesses, but you will never get paid enough there. I know from my experience, this has been the case.

For now, you might have to buy used tires, and you may have to go without internet access (or switch to a $9.95 dial-up provider), satellite/cable TV, etc.

It is possible to get up and go farther. I have. Now, I still drive around a beat up car, and I usually buy cheap tires -- though sometimes I splurge. A couple of years of sacrifice can lead to prosperity if you have a goal and work to reach it.


I don't mean to sound like a cheesy motivational speaker, but it's true -- you can get ahead, and you don't need the government giving you artificial raises to do it.
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79) this cracks me up!! [by Anonymous Citizen on June 28, 2007]
well mister get a new job or move to the city...are you hiring??? do you realize how much money it takes to move??????? if a person cant afford where they are living now..how in the world can they save up to move??? come on now..be realistic here!
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80) I've moved around quite a bit... [by newmark on July 3, 2007]
I have moved 6 times. I did it for free (other than gas) each time.

I got boxes from the local grocery store. I packed all my stuff myself. I loaded everything one by one into my car, and I moved it.

I borrowed my father-in-law's truck to move furniture.

Granted, the biggest single move I've made personally was 25 miles. That move was made to save money, by moving to a cheaper home.


Anyway, this whole argument over this minimum wage law is ridiculous. This bill wasn't passed. A different one was. The new minimum wage is already going into effect. And prices are going up everywhere. Big surprise. Not.

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81) Best of luck to you... [by newmark on October 5, 2006]
Hello small business owner,

I wish you and your family business the best of luck. Keep fighting for the American dream.


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82) respond to HMMMMM [by Anonymous Citizen on August 24, 2006]
Alot of kids HAVE to work to help out these days. Their parents can't provide for them like they would like to and some just won't. 12 an hour would really benefit alot of families and teens and has nothing to do with the BEER companies. Besides, kids whom are busy don't have alot of idle time to get into things they don't need to and if they have to pay there own way they will think twice. It would also help those kids whom aren't able to go to college to be able to get a degree to try to earn more money. The price of living keeps rising and it is tough on families.
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83) mininum wage [by Anonymous Citizen on August 6, 2006]
yes the minium wage should be raised like the gas price at least 100% to $10.30 per hour but if Gov dont regulate everthing else all the bussiness,s will just raise their products 110% and then a lot of good it would do the employee is on a fixed income he can only stand X amount of hours at what ever his wage may be thats all.
17% is a joke almost everything has raised like the gas and is still going up a lot more than 17% $5.15 per hr +17%=$6.02per hr could you live on even 60 hrs of that.
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84) For the love of... [by newmark on July 17, 2006]
When I heard that one of the strategies for the Democrats in '06 was to put minimum wage on state ballots, in order to help drive their base to the ballot box, I honestly thought that it must have been a joke, or an idea that was being kicked around and not seriously being considered.

It saddens me that a major political party resorts to what is essentially buying votes from the (generally) under- or un-educated. I wish our state was better than that.

I could launch into a discussion about how the minimum wage actually hurts employment, in the long run, but, we'll skip that for now.

Instead, I suggest to lawmakers that if they want to help Kentuckians make more money, long term, that they work to reform Kentucky's educational system. Make Kentucky's educational system one the rest of the nation envies. Give our children the competitive edge to be the best and brightest in our nation and world-wide, so we don't have to worry about a "minimum wage".

I'll also hold off on my particular ideas for how to resolve many issues with education, as that is not the point of this legislation.

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85) Future UK graduate 2007 [by Anonymous Citizen on March 29, 2007]
This bill would help struggling college kids to make more of a focused effort on acedemics. As it stands the minimum wage for a server is $2.13 per hour. RIDICULOUS! You never know if you will make $10 in a night or $70 -some people (skum usually,but you would be surprised) just don't tip 15%. THANK YOU for finally putting the University Students on your list of priorities!
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86) your point is null and void. [by Anonymous Citizen on March 14, 2007]
Obviously you don't know the first thing about where our educated citizens are going. My friends and I all just graduated from a top-tier-in-the-nation liberal arts college and have $120,000 worth of education under our belts (which means a ton of college loans, too), but most of us can't find a real job to save our lives and are stuck succumbing to these jobs that pay not much more than minimum wage, since most respectable employers these days are looking for "experience" rather than education. Most of those ignorant peons you find yourself so superior to in your daily existence are probably smarter and more educated than you, and just didn't have a rich daddy to give them a job when they graduated.
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87) uh huh [by newmark on March 15, 2007]
I came from a middle-class home. While we grew up, my father worked (and continues to work) at the local phone company, and my mother stayed home with us. Now that we're all grown and moved out with our own families, my mother now works at a local hospital as a nurse.

I went to college for a couple of years at one of Kentucky's public universities, but I found college dull and irrelevant. I went into the workforce and worked my way up.

So I'm not from an affluent background. And I'm not uber-rich or anything either.

Now, 10 years later, I wish I'd finished college, because I'm finding that it is difficult to continue moving up the ranks in my career path. So a college education will likely net you great benefits in the long run. But that is not the focus of this discussion.

Based on what you've stated, I would bet you that an increase in minimum wage would put you to the "new" minimum wage. This means that while you were making more than minimum wage before, you will be AT minimum wage after the increase. So you will be at the bottom. This is not an upgrade! You've actually been moved DOWN the pay-scale. Now, you're at the bottom.

The economy will react to an increase in minimum wage. The cost of all goods and services will increase. There are a number of accounts from small and medium business owners in this very topic, about how they will have to increase prices, and how those with businesses in both Ohio and Kentucky have already increased their prices as a result of Ohio's minimum wage increase -- and that's not even been in effect for 6 months!

Minimum wage increases will not solve your problem. Starting out is painful, with or without a degree. You will be able to advance more quickly with a degree from a prestigious university. I would bet you that in 10 years, you'll be further ahead than I am now, currently 10 years into my career.

If in the future, you ever feel the sting of having minimum wage wipe out the economic advantage you've worked hard to achieve, you may change your tune.

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88) Wrong [by Anonymous Citizen on October 31, 2006]
Please spare us the conservative rhetoric, 5 dollars an hour is not a living wage and to suggest the free market system is currently working for the average american is nonsense.
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89) You're correct, it's not a living wage [by newmark on November 13, 2006]
Yes, the minimum wage is not a living wage. Approximately 2% of Americans work for minimum wage. The majority of that 2% is made up of students. Minimum wage is a Starting Wage, not a Living Wage.

No matter what you increase minimum wage to, it will always be the bottom, and after the market adjusts to it within the course of a year or two, with inflation, it will still not be a living wage.

You could increase minimum wage to $50/hr, and in 2 years time, the cost of every good made in America will cost 10 times what it costs today.


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90) Blind & out of touch [by patriotgal on November 14, 2006]
You are either blind or out of touch with working America. You can spit out all the numbers you want, but the fact is, all too many Americans are working minimum wage jobs. It doesn't matter that it's not a living wage - a living wage today is close to three times the minimum wage. But is the answer to that to just ignore it altogether, because you say only 2% get minimum wage?!! How deliciously evil.

First of all, more than 2% of individuals in the United States earn minimum wage. If you're getting your information through the Republican media, or a right wing think tank such as the Heritage Foundation, you are getting filtered information.

Other, diverse sources of information - not found in one place - confirm that roughly 12-14% of Americans are in minimum wage jobs. Roughly 60% of these are women heading single parent households. Approximately 7.5% are teens, and these are mostly from low-income households where the teen's earnings are used to supplement family income. In other words, we're not talking about a teen whose family earns 60K or more a year, here, and who just needs the job for "training" or spending money. In fact, how many teens of wealthy individuals do you know who are "in training" at McDonald's? THINK about it.

Not only that, but raising the minimum wage would also give an incentive to some individuals to get off welfare sooner. Why don't you sit down and figure out how much it costs to live, and then do the math - backwards? Find out how much it costs to live and then figure out how much you need to make an hour.

But people like you don't do that, do you? All you do is swallow the selfish, conservative talking points, without verifying the facts. You don't question anything they say.

In this case, there's a wealth of information out there by many diverse organizations. If all these unrelated organizations can come close to agreeing on a set of facts, and the "opposition" comes from basically one source, or interconnected sources, why should anyone believe it as fact?

There's been alot of lying going on during the last six years, and I've about had enough of it.

The fact is that raising the minimum wage to anything less than $10/hr won't solve the problem, BUT IT WILL HELP.

The majority of people who will benefit are families, not teens. Or don't you think women, the majority of those who will benefit, deserve it?
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91) statistics is an amazing "science" [by newmark on November 16, 2006]
Your very first point is that too many Americans are working for minimum wage. I agree. Why do people put up with minimum wage? That is the real question. But we're not discussing that right now, so we'll skip over that.

My very first job was minimum wage. And the minimum wage increase from $4.25 to $4.75 ate my first raise that I earned by working hard.

When my wife and I were married, I was making just barely more than minimum wage. We had a son as well. And my wife has always stayed home with our son (and as of 5 years ago, our daughter, as well). I applied myself, worked my way into a growing niche market, and 10 years later, I make much more than minimum wage. It's quite possible to do.

As far as the 2% statistic, I apparently was not 100% accurate there. And I apologize. 2% is for workers aged 25 to 65. I think your significantly higher percentage may be talking about state minimum wages, and not the federal minimum wage itself. More people may be making state minimum wage, than are making federal minimum wage, since the federal minimum wage is lower than the state minimum wage.


Quoting: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2005.htm (Department of Labor)

According to Current Population Survey estimates for 2005, 75.6 million American workers were paid at hourly rates, representing 60.1 percent of all wage and salary workers. Of those paid by the hour, 479,000 were reported as earning exactly $5.15, the prevailing Federal minimum wage. Another 1.4 million were reported as earning wages below the minimum.2 Together, these 1.9 million workers with wages at or below the minimum made up 2.5 percent of all hourly-paid workers.
...
About 2 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less.


Quoting: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/Advice/WageSlavesGetARaise.aspx

The percentage of the work force receiving the minimum varies from state to state, with the highest proportion -- about 4% -- in Oklahoma and West Virginia, and the lowest -- 1% or less -- in Alaska, California and Washington, according to the Department of Labor. Government statistics show the nationwide percentage of workers earning the federal minimum wage was 15.1% in 1980, declining to 2.5% in 2005.


So can we agree that only 2.5% of workers are making the *federal* minimum wage?

Additionally, this MS Money article mentions that the highest percentage of those earning minimum wage is 4%, in Oklahoma and West Virginia. Note, that upon investigation on the DoL's website, you can find the same data there, as well.

Another chart at the Department of Labor's website shows Kentucky having 3.1% of its workers at minimum wage.

There are a slew of minimum wage and statistics, tables, etc available from the first link mentioned (http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2005.htm)

You can obtain stats from other places, for sure. But the US Department of Labor is probably the only place to get the "official" stats.


And let's be clear here -- at what household income level do you categorize someone's family as "wealthy"? I know kids who worked at McDonald's, and the household income qualified them for the top income tax bracket -- over $120,000/yr. Any responsible parent should make their children work to earn their own keep.


Welfare is, in reality, a whole different problem. And I'm going to leave it out of this discussion only because it's another can of worms that is a nice, long discussion all by itself.


I will again state for the record that I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat.


I certainly hope that the "lying" comment wasn't directed towards me in particular. While we certainly disagree upon this issue, it's possible to discuss without any name-calling or accusations.

As I mentioned elsewhere -- you could raise the federal minimum wage to $50/hr, and in 2 years, the market will adjust and those making $50/hr would be right back where they started -- the difference being that those who have worked their way up to anything below $100 per hour would be significantly worse off. You would increase the number of people at the bottom, but it would not increase the quality of life at the bottom, long-term.


Meanwhile, raising the minimum wage DOES hurt business:

Quoting: http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0622/p01s03-usec.html

In fact, [some economists] say, upping wages will only create incentives for businesses to hire fewer low-skilled workers - which is what happened when at least 146,000 restaurant workers lost their jobs after the last minimum-wage hike, according to the National Restaurant Association.



There will always be a bottom. Always. The goal is to get off of the bottom. Not to bring others down to it. Raising the minimum wage does NOT make the bottom any better. It just brings more people down to the minimum. I guess it's true what they say - misery loves company.


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92) a rational response [by newmark on November 15, 2006]
Your very first point is that too many Americans are working for minimum wage. I agree. Why do people put up with minimum wage? That is the real question. But we're not discussing that right now, so we'll skip over that.

My very first job was minimum wage. And the minimum wage increase from $4.25 to $4.75 ate my first raise that I earned by working hard.

When my wife and I were married, I was making just barely more than minimum wage. We had a son as well. And my wife has always stayed home with our son (and as of 5 years ago, our daughter, as well). I applied myself, worked my way into a growing niche market, and 10 years later, I make much more than minimum wage. It's quite possible to do.

As far as the 2% statistic, I apparently was not 100% accurate there. And I apologize. 2% is for workers aged 25 to 65. I think your significantly higher percentage may be talking about state minimum wages, and not the federal minimum wage itself. More people may be making state minimum wage, than are making federal minimum wage, since the federal minimum wage is lower than the state minimum wage.


Quoting: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2005.htm (Department of Labor)

According to Current Population Survey estimates for 2005, 75.6 million American workers were paid at hourly rates, representing 60.1 percent of all wage and salary workers. Of those paid by the hour, 479,000 were reported as earning exactly $5.15, the prevailing Federal minimum wage. Another 1.4 million were reported as earning wages below the minimum.2 Together, these 1.9 million workers with wages at or below the minimum made up 2.5 percent of all hourly-paid workers.
...
About 2 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less.


Quoting: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/Advice/WageSlavesGetARaise.aspx

The percentage of the work force receiving the minimum varies from state to state, with the highest proportion -- about 4% -- in Oklahoma and West Virginia, and the lowest -- 1% or less -- in Alaska, California and Washington, according to the Department of Labor. Government statistics show the nationwide percentage of workers earning the federal minimum wage was 15.1% in 1980, declining to 2.5% in 2005.


So can we agree that only 2.5% of workers are making the *federal* minimum wage?

Additionally, this MS Money article mentions that the highest percentage of those earning minimum wage is 4%, in Oklahoma and West Virginia. Note, that upon investigation on the DoL's website, you can find the same data there, as well.

There are a slew of minimum wage and statistics, tables, etc available from the first link menti